Tulpa.info - metaphysics

ur teacher is bffs with ryuk

11:19 PM

/j

Would you say that there is mystical harm in factually wrong beliefs, regardless of whether or not you know them to be wrong? Additionally what about incorrect statements regardless of whether or not you believe them to be true? Putting aside normal practical reasons not to want to be wrong.

Don't know who ryuk is

ryuks a character in death note hehe

anon

Would you say that there is mystical harm in factually wrong beliefs, regardless of whether or not you know them to be wrong? Additionally what about incorrect statements regardless of whether or not you believe them to be true? Putting aside normal practical reasons not to want to be wrong.

ignoring whether you know they are wrong, it would define what you mean by wrong. Ethically wrong would be considered negative regardless, factually wrong would likely be dismissed as a different school of thought rather than being flat wrong. Incorrect statements is different, that's about you stating something, as in you are saying something with the intent of it being taken as fact. If you state something incorrect, it will cause harm regardless of whether you actually believe it. See: anti-vaxx

Oh I've watched Death Note, forgot the character's name

Factually wrong belief: amethsyt crystals are healing stones so they can cure cancer. Ethically wrong belief: You shouldn't take antibiotics at all bc alternative methods work much better! Incorrect statement: Vaccines are a lie >:( Also Incorrect: All Christians believe queer people are sinful

Theosophy was said to have meaningful thoughts lacking false beliefs, meaningful speech, and logical action. (edited)

11:26 PM

Mistakes in these things were supposedly harmful to developing clairvoyance. ps supposedly harmful in reliable perceiving what is there rather than fantasy borne from lotus flowers improperly formed ps2 corrected logical to meaningful (edited)

Essentially my teacher's line of thinking is, if you hold anything as a belief, you haven't sufficiently questioned whether the spacetime world is real independently from your experiencing it. However, the point is not being made for the sake of "philosophical correctness". Rather, the point is that human unhappiness is the result of two beliefs that are so deeply ingrained that the shattering of all beliefs is often the only way to root them out

Unfastened Belts

Essentially my teacher's line of thinking is, if you hold anything as a belief, you haven't sufficiently questioned whether the spacetime world is real independently from your experiencing it. However, the point is not being made for the sake of "philosophical correctness". Rather, the point is that human unhappiness is the result of two beliefs that are so deeply ingrained that the shattering of all beliefs is often the only way to root them out

But that doesn't mean you can't hold beliefs at all, in fact that statement is in itself a belief

The statement is not a belief, it's a description. However, as I said earlier, humans are almost incapable of being given a description without turning it into a belief (or dismissing it instead) (edited)

11:28 PM

And yeah, like I said, it doesn't mean you can't hold beliefs at all. Just that you may have to "suspend them" until the two bad ones are rooted out

11:31 PM

And to be clear, that's not even said as a prescription or suggestion

11:33 PM

It's just a description of how unhappiness ("spiritual amnesia mumbo jumbo") tends to be dissolved

Oh well thx m8 Kamiko in all actuality

np

yawns tiredly

12:15 AM

What did I miss this time?

"there is no such thing as absolute correctness" would imply that that statement itself is not absolutely correct, that perhaps there is some absolute correctness I think that it can be easy to assume that because all of us live in subjective reality there is no such thing as objective reality; that because we can't be objectively correct, that objective correctness is impossible. I don't see any reason why it couldn't exist theoretically at least

Speculating on that is sort of moot, though?

1:52 AM

What then could "absolute correctness" be, if not the sum of all space and time there ever was and will be?

1:53 AM

That, and/or the "current moment" slice of the spacetime universe

absolute correctness would be a comprehensive theory of everything that explains and predicts everything and that follows objective reality

Yyyeah but even if that's theoretically possible, clearly it isn't practically possible, sooo what's the point?

what's the point of anything? practicality is far overrated anyway. so long as it is theoretically possible it may be eventually achieved

Idk man

2:48 AM

Theoretically there may be a flying spaghetti monster, etc

2:54 AM

On a more clears throat metaphysical note, I think if you figured out the Theory of Everything, existing would become moot

2:54 AM

What's the purpose of experiencing if there are no mysteries?

2:58 AM

The point of existing as organisms seems to me to be to experience tiny slices of a Totality that's already "known" "prior to" existing (edited)

reason is just a thing that humans came up with to make the world easier to understand. if you understood the theory of everything, reason would cease to be a meaningful concept. though if you decide to stick with the concept of reason, there are still different ways that you can take it. maybe now you can exist just for the sake of existing, or to complete some other equally arbitrary task

maybe now you can exist just for the sake of existing

You could already do this now ;D

yeah

3:09 AM

I figure that there is enough weird complexity in humans that even if a human knew everything, so long as they didn't become completely overwhelmed trying to process it all, they would still go on doing human things

Like I said, I doubt a human could ever know (select slices of) everything, but shrugs

3:12 AM

We won't find out in you and I's lifetime

3:15 AM

Plus, even if knowing everything doesn't get in the way of happiness, it certainly isn't necessary either ;3

happiness is just as arbitrary of a goal as anything else. that doesn't mean that it is bad of course, but just that it isn't necessary

Unfastened Belts

We won't find out in you and I's lifetime

well I plan on living for a very, very long time, so I might find out if things go right

Breloomancer

happiness is just as arbitrary of a goal as anything else. that doesn't mean that it is bad of course, but just that it isn't necessary

I agree, with the caveat that happiness seems to really be the (sometimes unconscious) goal of all human beings

3:20 AM

Our quest for happiness (and whether we reach it) is arbitrary, except in the sense that this quest seems to be universal across our species

3:21 AM

(Just to clarify that by that I mean everyone is looking for it, not that we're all looking for it together) (edited)

well happiness certainly is not my primary goal, though being happy does assist in the completion of my primary goal, so it could be considered a sub goal

Why would you have this primary goal if not for the reason that you think that achieving it will bring you a sense of fulfillment?

it simply seems like a worthwhile goal. a thing that, since I can do, or at least attempt to do, I should do

What is this goal, anyway?

no reason greater than that, if there was a higher reason then that would be my goal instead

3:26 AM

it's a bit difficult to explain precisely what it is. in essence, there is certain work that needs to be done, and I am the only one who might be able to do it. what exactly that work is is a bit hard to describe; I know it when I see it, but I couldn't exactly say what makes some things it and other things not

Fascinating

3:28 AM

Do you think you could "complete" it in any sense, assuming you lived long enough?

3:28 AM

Or is it sort of open-ended?

I might be able to complete it someday given enough time, but it is very hard to say how long it will take. it isn't exactly open ended, but it does seem to be ever expanding. I figure eventually it will have to stop expanding and then I'll be able to slowly finish it all. the whole process might take thousands or even millions of years though, and even if everything goes to plan I'm not sure that I'll be able to live longer than a few thousand years, so I'll want to get a clone of myself or an upload of my brain or something like that that will be able to continue my work after I die

3:36 AM

I'm not sure what to do once it's all done though. but I guess I can leave that up to whatever ends up actually completing it, since it would likely be able to come up with something better than what I could

Are you sure would call this a "goal"? lol

3:42 AM

Sounds more like a very vague idea of "work to be done"

3:44 AM

How could anything matter on a million-year timescale, given that even if humans havent gone extinct, they will probably have evolved enough to classify at least as a new species?

well it wouldn't matter to anyone else, it would just matter to me. it would be strange really, if it mattered to anyone else

The only worthwhile project I could envision on that timescale would be to protect Earth from being swallowed up by the sun somehow

there are a lot of ways that things could go wrong. in all likelihood, my goal will not be seen to it's end. still, it is my goal, and I already chose it and so I'm giving it my best effort

Hmmmm

3:47 AM

If its something that only matters to you, why create clones to complete it after You are no more?

because it is important

To... you

yeah

3:48 AM

and to the clones, since they are the same as me (edited)

scratches her head Fair enough, I suppose?

3:49 AM

Proceed, lol

my goal isn't to see this come it an end, it is simply for it to happen. it doesn't really matter if I am the one who ends up achieving it or even if I am still alive (edited)

Remembers the existence of cathedrals Makes sense, I guess

3:51 AM

Is there any way you could conceive of to be just a little more concrete about the nature of your goal?

it is concrete in my mind, I just struggle to express it through english

dw dude we'll be living an altered carbon future someday

perhaps once my conlang is complete I will be able to give a good description of it in that

downloading into a new body

3:53 AM

uploading?

mind uploading is still a long way off

3:53 AM

the current plan is to get my brain frozen

not too long trust

3:53 AM

I feel like you'll def see it in our lifetime

so that hopefully someone can bring me back someday

3:56 AM

the biggest risk to my goal, as things currently stand, is that I might decide that it was silly and pursue a different goal. I don't really know what I could do to avoid this possibility though, nor am I certain that it is something that I should work to avoid

Okay but can you at least try in English? Even if you could better express it in your conlang, you would still have to teach me your conlang by way of English

what I said before was my attempt in english

3:57 AM

the idea that I might be able to say it in my conlang is really just speculation, I don't know if I would be able to express it that way either

"Certain work that I cant describe but know it when I see it" is less than I hoped for :(

: shrug :

what dyou wanna do anyway?

3:58 AM

like can we help somehow

I remember Breloo stating before that chatting with us on this server is part of this goal, so we're already helping!

4:00 AM

the biggest risk to my goal, as things currently stand, is that I might decide that it was silly and pursue a different goal.

Unless your goal is a lot more clear in your head than you're able to express, this doesn't seem like a large risk to me

chatting on this server forwarded my goal at that specific moment, but it isn't entirely part of my goal

Hmmm gotcha

I will probably be able to express more clearly what my goal is once I get further along it in

How along ago'd you start, your birth notwithstanding? (edited)

I don't entirely know. it was sort of a gradual thing, at first it was just a thing to do, and eventually it became the thing to do as my internal philosophy changed

Interesting

4:04 AM

Thanks for indulging my questions despite how cheeky I'm being in posing them

if I had to put a certain date though, the time when I was pushed furthest into this goal was probably when I took LSD